Migrant Workers From Mexico Being Used As Farm Labour

[Greg Carr]

Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.

Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

[Len McLaughlin]

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.
Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

===
Higher wages is the key. People who work to feed us should have their wages
right up there with the best and then there'd be no shortage of Canadians
willing to work. What could be more important than food on the table?
-lm

[Your Worst Nightmare]

Post by Len McLaughlin

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.
Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

===
Higher wages is the key. People who work to feed us should have their wages
right up there with the best and then there'd be no shortage of Canadians
willing to work. What could be more important than food on the table?
-lm

Keeping in mind that Canada has been presented as almost like a
Heaven-on-Earth paradise to people outside of Canada. I've seen
literature given to people interested in immigrating to Canada.
Also, I've heard or read the comment by people in other countries that
"Canadians are so rich!". No wonder people would like to come here.

However, I do agree that working in agriculture should be as well paid
as any other job. No agricultural workers means that food won't be
produced, and how long will we last with no food supply?
Somebody is sure to propose artificial factory-produced food, but do you
really want that as a substitute?

[Jean Munier]

Post by Your Worst Nightmare
Keeping in mind that Canada has been presented as almost like a
Heaven-on-Earth paradise to people outside of Canada. I've
seen literature given to people interested in immigrating to
Canada.
Also, I've heard or read the comment by people in other
countries that "Canadians are so rich!". No wonder people
would like to come here.

Partly true. Just depending where "people interested in
immigrating to Canada" come from. I know a few Swiss, a few
Belgians, a few Dutch, a few Germans, a few Scandinavians whose
standard of living went way down after immigrating to Canada.
Coming from Somalia or Zimbabwe or coming from Sweden ain't
exactly the same thing. Irrespective of what some people may
think.

J.

[laser Fast]

Post by Jean Munier
Partly true. Just depending where "people interested in
immigrating to Canada" come from. I know a few Swiss, a few
Belgians, a few Dutch, a few Germans, a few Scandinavians whose
standard of living went way down after immigrating to Canada.

Nice anecdote, probably total bull shit, but nice try anyway.

I notice that you don't support what you claim with any specific, just a
nebulous statement which you expect everyone to accept.

Go away. There are enough liars here.

[Your Worst Nightmare]

Post by Jean Munier

Post by Your Worst Nightmare
Keeping in mind that Canada has been presented as almost like a
Heaven-on-Earth paradise to people outside of Canada. I've
seen literature given to people interested in immigrating to
Canada.
Also, I've heard or read the comment by people in other
countries that "Canadians are so rich!". No wonder people
would like to come here.

Partly true. Just depending where "people interested in
immigrating to Canada" come from. I know a few Swiss, a few
Belgians, a few Dutch, a few Germans, a few Scandinavians whose
standard of living went way down after immigrating to Canada.
Coming from Somalia or Zimbabwe or coming from Sweden ain't
exactly the same thing. Irrespective of what some people may
think.
J.

It is mainly a perception based on the way Canada is sometimes presented
to people in other countries. Someone my sister knows just returned
from a visit to another country where people are paid quite well, but
the cost of living can be higher too.

[Karl Pollak]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Len McLaughlin
Higher wages is the key. People who work to feed us should have their wages
right up there with the best and then there'd be no shortage of Canadians
willing to work. What could be more important than food on the table?

The only problem is that if that were to happen, you would not be able to
afford the food.

[Will]

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.

Now since you are posting to all the BC groups -- I will assume you are
talking about the EI scams run by the East Indians -- nothing to do with
Mexicans so far -- unless you know something we don't.

Post by Greg Carr
Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

Maybe some are being exploited -- I have talked to a number of
Mexican/Latin American workers everywhere from the Holland Marsh to Lake
Huron etc. Haven't met any Mexicans yet that had really bad conditions.

Now there are some East Indian farmers that seem to be treating their
fellow country men (recent immigrants) quite badly... But I have never
gathered hard evidence...

Now the farmers that I have talked to are paying better than minimum
wage and will hire anyone that will do the work.

Do you have some specific examples you would like to share?

Maybe you should _prove_ your case generally and specifically.

[Peter White]

Ninconpoop

Post by Will

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.

Now since you are posting to all the BC groups -- I will assume you are
talking about the EI scams run by the East Indians -- nothing to do with
Mexicans so far -- unless you know something we don't.

Post by Greg Carr
Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

Maybe some are being exploited -- I have talked to a number of
Mexican/Latin American workers everywhere from the Holland Marsh to Lake
Huron etc. Haven't met any Mexicans yet that had really bad conditions.
Now there are some East Indian farmers that seem to be treating their
fellow country men (recent immigrants) quite badly... But I have never
gathered hard evidence...
Now the farmers that I have talked to are paying better than minimum
wage and will hire anyone that will do the work.
Do you have some specific examples you would like to share?
Maybe you should _prove_ your case generally and specifically.

[Will]

Post by Peter White
Ninconpoop

Give us your wisdom Peter.

Or are you too busy shaking your peter?

Post by Peter White

Post by Will

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.

Now since you are posting to all the BC groups -- I will assume you
are talking about the EI scams run by the East Indians -- nothing to
do with Mexicans so far -- unless you know something we don't.

Post by Greg Carr
Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

Maybe some are being exploited -- I have talked to a number of
Mexican/Latin American workers everywhere from the Holland Marsh to
Lake Huron etc. Haven't met any Mexicans yet that had really bad
conditions.
Now there are some East Indian farmers that seem to be treating their
fellow country men (recent immigrants) quite badly... But I have never
gathered hard evidence...
Now the farmers that I have talked to are paying better than minimum
wage and will hire anyone that will do the work.
Do you have some specific examples you would like to share?
Maybe you should _prove_ your case generally and specifically.

[Len McLaughlin]

Post by Will

Post by Peter White
Ninconpoop

Give us your wisdom Peter.

===
He just did. (:-)
===

Post by Will
Or are you too busy shaking your peter?

Post by Peter White

Post by Will

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.

Now since you are posting to all the BC groups -- I will assume you are
talking about the EI scams run by the East Indians -- nothing to do with
Mexicans so far -- unless you know something we don't.

Post by Greg Carr
Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

Maybe some are being exploited -- I have talked to a number of
Mexican/Latin American workers everywhere from the Holland Marsh to Lake
Huron etc. Haven't met any Mexicans yet that had really bad conditions.
Now there are some East Indian farmers that seem to be treating their
fellow country men (recent immigrants) quite badly... But I have never
gathered hard evidence...
Now the farmers that I have talked to are paying better than minimum
wage and will hire anyone that will do the work.
Do you have some specific examples you would like to share?
Maybe you should _prove_ your case generally and specifically.

--
Will
A liberal -- but definitely not a (shudder) Liberal.

[James]

OK. Which one of you posters have even been on a farm? Any of you as
a kid ever earn money picking berries or packing produce?

One good thing about paying high wages for farm labour is that higher
food cost might result in fewer blubber butts in Canada.

[Rhino]

Post by James
OK. Which one of you posters have even been on a farm? Any of you as
a kid ever earn money picking berries or packing produce?
One good thing about paying high wages for farm labour is that higher
food cost might result in fewer blubber butts in Canada.

How would that work? The stuff that the farm labour is picking is (mostly)
the *good* food, fruits and vegetables that contain nutrients and other
healthy ingredients. Making that much more expensive is going to drive more
people to "manufactured" food, most of which is nutritionally lacking.
Therefore, paying fruit and vegetable pickers more money is going to cause
MORE "blubber butts", not fewer.

By the way, the other thing immigrant farm labourers are picking is tobacco,
at least in southern Ontario. They could pay them $1000/hour to pick tobacco
as far as I'm concerned; the more it raises the cost of tobacco, the more
people will finally quit smoking.

Rhino

[Greg Carr]

On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:04:12 -0400, "Rhino"

Post by Rhino

Post by James
OK. Which one of you posters have even been on a farm?

I've picked strawberries, potatoes and bailed hay.

Any of you as

Post by Rhino

Post by James
a kid ever earn money picking berries or packing produce?
One good thing about paying high wages for farm labour is that higher
food cost might result in fewer blubber butts in Canada.

How would that work? The stuff that the farm labour is picking is (mostly)
the *good* food, fruits and vegetables that contain nutrients and other
healthy ingredients. Making that much more expensive is going to drive more
people to "manufactured" food, most of which is nutritionally lacking.
Therefore, paying fruit and vegetable pickers more money is going to cause
MORE "blubber butts", not fewer.
By the way, the other thing immigrant farm labourers are picking is tobacco,
at least in southern Ontario. They could pay them $1000/hour to pick tobacco
as far as I'm concerned; the more it raises the cost of tobacco, the more
people will finally quit smoking.
Rhino

[Greg Carr]

On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:52:53 -0400, Will

Post by Will

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.

Now since you are posting to all the BC groups -- I will assume you are
talking about the EI scams run by the East Indians -- nothing to do with
Mexicans so far -- unless you know something we don't.

The woman who ran the farm in the sorry was Indo-Canadian.

Post by Will

Post by Greg Carr
Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

Maybe some are being exploited -- I have talked to a number of
Mexican/Latin American workers everywhere from the Holland Marsh to Lake
Huron etc. Haven't met any Mexicans yet that had really bad conditions.
Now there are some East Indian farmers that seem to be treating their
fellow country men (recent immigrants) quite badly... But I have never
gathered hard evidence...
Now the farmers that I have talked to are paying better than minimum
wage and will hire anyone that will do the work.
Do you have some specific examples you would like to share?
Maybe you should _prove_ your case generally and specifically.

[Scream Machine]

I agree. It used to be people owned their land, and worked it. I'm just not
convinced that farmers don't want to do the work of farming. It's absolutely
ridiculous thinking.
The days of farmers owning their land and working it are slowly eroding
away.

The new trend seems to be a big company to purchase land, and build a
superfarm, where the owners simply hire the cheap labour. Nope, the labour
does not get a cut of the profits. Nope, the labour does not own the land.
It's like reverting back to the days of feudalism, where peasants worked the
land around a castle.

The future is indeed ugly -- looking alot like medieval Europe.

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.
Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

[Detector]

Post by Scream Machine
I agree. It used to be people owned their land, and worked it. I'm just not
convinced that farmers don't want to do the work of farming. It's absolutely
ridiculous thinking.
The days of farmers owning their land and working it are slowly eroding
away.
The new trend seems to be a big company to purchase land, and build a
superfarm, where the owners simply hire the cheap labour. Nope, the labour
does not get a cut of the profits. Nope, the labour does not own the land.
It's like reverting back to the days of feudalism, where peasants worked the
land around a castle.
The future is indeed ugly -- looking alot like medieval Europe.

Only with worse practices that deplete the land....

Post by Scream Machine

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.
Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

[Donald Dickson]

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.
Canada brings in plenty of refugees and immigrants already and doesn't
need to bring in seasonal peasant labour. Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

Then let Canadians spend as high a percentage of their income on food as
most other developed countries. Some statistics (OECD I think) I saw a
while ago showed Canadians have one of the lowest food costs (as a
percent of income) of any country in the world. One of the significant
reasons for this is that the cost of purchasing raw materials from
farmers by food processors is a smaller proportion of the final price
than in most other countries.

[Len McLaughlin]

Post by Donald Dickson
One of the significant
reasons for this is that the cost of purchasing raw materials from
farmers by food processors is a smaller proportion of the final price
than in most other countries.
--
Don Dickson

==
Very true. It's the middle men that are ripping off the system and why
farmers are forced to seek immigrant labour or sell out to the
multinationals who will continue with the cheap labour bit. These are the
two selling the myth of the need for cheap labour...it keeps the spot light
off of them.
-lm

[Karl Pollak]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Len McLaughlin
Very true. It's the middle men that are ripping off the system and why

Show me one person who got rich selling vegetables you fucking idiot.

Post by Len McLaughlin
farmers are forced to seek immigrant labour or sell out to the

We are not talking about immigrants but MIGRANT LABOUR

Post by Len McLaughlin
multinationals who will continue with the cheap labour bit. These are the
two selling the myth of the need for cheap labour...it keeps the spot light
off of them.

Fancy paying $12/kg for cherries?
I don't see you complaining about having fresh tomatoes in the middle of
winter, you moron. Where the hell did you think they come from? And who
do you think is looking after the plants, planting them, weeding,
harvesting? The same Pedro and Jose that comes here to do some more
weeding and harvesting for a few weeks. Except that he gets far more money
for his work here than he gets back home. So that you can have fresh
tomatoes at a very reasonable price in February.

It is amazing to watch you ignorant bunch of idiots get your shit in a knot
over any issue you can raise, without having the least clue of the facts.

[Len McLaughlin]

Post by Karl Pollak
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Len McLaughlin
Very true. It's the middle men that are ripping off the system and why

Show me one person who got rich selling vegetables you fucking idiot.

Post by Len McLaughlin
farmers are forced to seek immigrant labour or sell out to the

We are not talking about immigrants but MIGRANT LABOUR

Post by Len McLaughlin
multinationals who will continue with the cheap labour bit. These are the
two selling the myth of the need for cheap labour...it keeps the spot light
off of them.

Fancy paying $12/kg for cherries?
I don't see you complaining about having fresh tomatoes in the middle of
winter, you moron. Where the hell did you think they come from? And who
do you think is looking after the plants, planting them, weeding,
harvesting? The same Pedro and Jose that comes here to do some more
weeding and harvesting for a few weeks. Except that he gets far more money
for his work here than he gets back home. So that you can have fresh
tomatoes at a very reasonable price in February.
It is amazing to watch you ignorant bunch of idiots get your shit in a knot
over any issue you can raise, without having the least clue of the facts.

===
OK Karl, so it's migrant worker, if thats so important to you. 'Migrant
workers' do have the habit of becoming immigrants, but that's another
story..
Our whole thinking of food and farming needs rethinking, including property
taxes.. Farm subsidies are a big thing in most industrialized countries and
for a reason.
However, the farmer in this country gets less than 5% on a box of cereal.
That rate wouldn't have to increase much before he could pay decent wages to
unemployed Canadians...lets keep the tears for Canadians first. Since the
majority of our food is highly processed, it's the middle man, normally
some multinational, that's reaping the profits
Stupid or not, that's the way I see it. You're welcome to your version and
I won't call you stupid..maybe just think it.
-lm
===

Post by Karl Pollak
--
Greetings from Lotusland

[Greg Carr]

Post by Len McLaughlin

Post by Karl Pollak
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Len McLaughlin
Very true. It's the middle men that are ripping off the system and why

Show me one person who got rich selling vegetables you fucking idiot.

Post by Len McLaughlin
farmers are forced to seek immigrant labour or sell out to the

We are not talking about immigrants but MIGRANT LABOUR

Post by Len McLaughlin
multinationals who will continue with the cheap labour bit. These are the
two selling the myth of the need for cheap labour...it keeps the spot light
off of them.

Fancy paying $12/kg for cherries?
I don't see you complaining about having fresh tomatoes in the middle of
winter, you moron. Where the hell did you think they come from? And who
do you think is looking after the plants, planting them, weeding,
harvesting? The same Pedro and Jose that comes here to do some more
weeding and harvesting for a few weeks. Except that he gets far more money
for his work here than he gets back home. So that you can have fresh
tomatoes at a very reasonable price in February.
It is amazing to watch you ignorant bunch of idiots get your shit in a knot
over any issue you can raise, without having the least clue of the facts.

===
OK Karl, so it's migrant worker, if thats so important to you. 'Migrant
workers' do have the habit of becoming immigrants, but that's another
story..
Our whole thinking of food and farming needs rethinking, including property
taxes.. Farm subsidies are a big thing in most industrialized countries and
for a reason.
However, the farmer in this country gets less than 5% on a box of cereal.
That rate wouldn't have to increase much before he could pay decent wages to
unemployed Canadians...lets keep the tears for Canadians first. Since the
majority of our food is highly processed, it's the middle man, normally
some multinational, that's reaping the profits
Stupid or not, that's the way I see it. You're welcome to your version and
I won't call you stupid..maybe just think it.
-lm
===

Post by Karl Pollak
--
Greetings from Lotusland

Your correct that farmers make a small amount of the end price. In the
US migrant workers who have become legal residents under amnesty
programs are losing their jobs by the new wave of illegal migrant
workers.

If farmers aren't willing to compete in the Canadian labour pool for
workers then let them sell the land to someone else and move to the US
and try to make a living there.

[Karl Pollak]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Len McLaughlin
OK Karl, so it's migrant worker, if thats so important to you.

Yes, it does make all the difference.

Post by Len McLaughlin
'Migrant
workers' do have the habit of becoming immigrants, but that's another
story..

BULLSHIT. Show some evidence. They are INELIGIBLE to even apply either
for immigration or for refugee status. BY LAW, you fucking moron. You are
deliberately spreading utter falsehood in here, for whatever perverse
pleasure that may give you.

Post by Len McLaughlin
Our whole thinking of food and farming needs rethinking, including property
taxes.. Farm subsidies are a big thing in most industrialized countries and
for a reason.

Farm subsidies are a big thing because of France and the USA having a
protracted subsidy fight and distorting world agri-commodities prices.

Post by Len McLaughlin
However, the farmer in this country gets less than 5% on a box of cereal.
That rate wouldn't have to increase much before he could pay decent wages to
unemployed Canadians...lets keep the tears for Canadians first.

I don;t think you get it. In fact, I am pretty sure that you don;t get it
because you have not got anything else so far: Canadians do not want to do
the work. Get it, idiot? It's not about the money, it is about the hard
work. Vegetable and fruit farming is a lot of hard work.

Post by Len McLaughlin
Since the
majority of our food is highly processed, it's the middle man, normally
some multinational, that's reaping the profits
Stupid or not, that's the way I see it.

Stupid, and you don't see anything.

If you don't like processed food and "the middle boogeyman", eat fresh
fruits and veggies, buy your meat and dairy from the farmer direct adn you
will have no problems.

Post by Len McLaughlin
You're welcome to your version and
I won't call you stupid..maybe just think it.

You ? Think?
So far, you have shown no evidence of thinking ...

[Greg Carr]

Post by Karl Pollak
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Len McLaughlin
OK Karl, so it's migrant worker, if thats so important to you.

Yes, it does make all the difference.

Post by Len McLaughlin
'Migrant
workers' do have the habit of becoming immigrants, but that's another
story..

BULLSHIT. Show some evidence. They are INELIGIBLE to even apply either
for immigration or for refugee status. BY LAW, you fucking moron. You are
deliberately spreading utter falsehood in here, for whatever perverse
pleasure that may give you.

Post by Len McLaughlin
Our whole thinking of food and farming needs rethinking, including property
taxes.. Farm subsidies are a big thing in most industrialized countries and
for a reason.

Farm subsidies are a big thing because of France and the USA having a
protracted subsidy fight and distorting world agri-commodities prices.

Even tobacco farmers get subsidies in Canada. Let's get rid of all
agriculture subsidies let the Americans run record defects in order to
supply us with our daily victuals. The efficient farmers will still
succeed.

Agricultural subsidies in Canada 1991-2000 by Lawrence Solomon and
Douglas Paisley
For every dollar that Canadian farmers earned over the last 10 years,
federal and provincial governments supplied an average of $3.76 in
agricultural subsidies. No province operated a profitable farm economy
for the past decade. June 18/2001
http://www.urban-renaissance.org/urbanren/index.cfm?DSP=content&ContentID=2131

This industry along with the cattle industry is a catastrophic failure
and all subsidies should be removed. I worked for InnerCity Packers
and they were turning profits as were the big beef companies while the
ranchers were getting clobbered despite over a billion dollars of
emergency funding thrown into it during the mad cow crisis. They make
a good veggie burger.

Post by Karl Pollak

Post by Len McLaughlin
However, the farmer in this country gets less than 5% on a box of cereal.
That rate wouldn't have to increase much before he could pay decent wages to
unemployed Canadians...lets keep the tears for Canadians first.

I don;t think you get it. In fact, I am pretty sure that you don;t get it
because you have not got anything else so far: Canadians do not want to do
the work. Get it, idiot? It's not about the money, it is about the hard
work. Vegetable and fruit farming is a lot of hard work.

Yet they are willing to work in construction and in warehouses lifting
TV sets and winches under hot tin roofs. You are a janitor/bill
collector when you are not unemployed. Canadians are willing to work
hard they will even think and innovate. You just have to pay them well
and give them benefits and bonuses. If the farmer can't make a profit
he is just another business failure. Better luck in telemarketing or
running a travel agency.

Post by Karl Pollak

Post by Len McLaughlin
Since the
majority of our food is highly processed, it's the middle man, normally
some multinational, that's reaping the profits
Stupid or not, that's the way I see it.

You are correct.

Post by Karl Pollak
Stupid, and you don't see anything.
If you don't like processed food and "the middle boogeyman", eat fresh
fruits and veggies, buy your meat and dairy from the farmer direct adn you
will have no problems.

Fresh fruits and veggies are the best as any nutritionist will tell
you.

Post by Karl Pollak

Post by Len McLaughlin
You're welcome to your version and
I won't call you stupid..maybe just think it.

Don't mind Karl. He is an unemployed homosexual who likes to write
letters to the editor defending the rights of child molesters to
download pictures of naked 4 year olds and of sex acts between 30 and
6 year olds.

Post by Karl Pollak
You ? Think?
So far, you have shown no evidence of thinking ...

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

Post by Karl Pollak

Post by Len McLaughlin
'Migrant
workers' do have the habit of becoming immigrants, but that's another
story..

BULLSHIT. Show some evidence. They are INELIGIBLE to even apply either
for immigration or for refugee status. BY LAW, you fucking moron. You ar
deliberately spreading utter falsehood in here, for whatever perverse
pleasure that may give you.

Some have been known to illegally stay behind, and, when caught, seek refugee
status.

Post by Karl Pollak
I don;t think you get it. In fact, I am pretty sure that you don;t get it
because you have not got anything else so far: Canadians do not want to d
the work. Get it, idiot? It's not about the money, it is about the hard
work. Vegetable and fruit farming is a lot of hard work.

Nah, it's about the money -- nobody wants to do hard dirty work for minimum
wage(or less).

Post by Karl Pollak
If you don't like processed food and "the middle boogeyman", eat fresh
fruits and veggies, buy your meat and dairy from the farmer direct adn you
will have no problems.

You're not ALLOWED to buy your dairy directly from the farmers!

Because I care,

|<+]::-( ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

PS This post specially encoded for verification purposes

[Greg Carr]

Post by Karl Pollak
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Len McLaughlin
Very true. It's the middle men that are ripping off the system and why

Show me one person who got rich selling vegetables you fucking idiot.

Post by Len McLaughlin
farmers are forced to seek immigrant labour or sell out to the

We are not talking about immigrants but MIGRANT LABOUR

Post by Len McLaughlin
multinationals who will continue with the cheap labour bit. These are the
two selling the myth of the need for cheap labour...it keeps the spot light
off of them.

Fancy paying $12/kg for cherries?
I don't see you complaining about having fresh tomatoes in the middle of
winter, you moron. Where the hell did you think they come from? And who
do you think is looking after the plants, planting them, weeding,
harvesting? The same Pedro and Jose that comes here to do some more
weeding and harvesting for a few weeks. Except that he gets far more money
for his work here than he gets back home. So that you can have fresh
tomatoes at a very reasonable price in February.
It is amazing to watch you ignorant bunch of idiots get your shit in a knot
over any issue you can raise, without having the least clue of the facts.

Yet they have greenhouses producing tomatoes and pineapples making
profits without migrant slave labour. There is no need to import guest
workers to Canada.

[Will]

Post by Greg Carr

Post by Karl Pollak
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Len McLaughlin
Very true. It's the middle men that are ripping off the system and why

Show me one person who got rich selling vegetables you fucking idiot.

Post by Len McLaughlin
farmers are forced to seek immigrant labour or sell out to the

We are not talking about immigrants but MIGRANT LABOUR

Post by Len McLaughlin
multinationals who will continue with the cheap labour bit. These are the
two selling the myth of the need for cheap labour...it keeps the spot light
off of them.

Fancy paying $12/kg for cherries?
I don't see you complaining about having fresh tomatoes in the middle of
winter, you moron. Where the hell did you think they come from? And who
do you think is looking after the plants, planting them, weeding,
harvesting? The same Pedro and Jose that comes here to do some more
weeding and harvesting for a few weeks. Except that he gets far more money
for his work here than he gets back home. So that you can have fresh
tomatoes at a very reasonable price in February.
It is amazing to watch you ignorant bunch of idiots get your shit in a knot
over any issue you can raise, without having the least clue of the facts.

Yet they have greenhouses producing tomatoes and pineapples making
profits without migrant slave labour. There is no need to import guest
workers to Canada.

Perhaps you can tell us how the Holland Marsh would operate. Then, after
that, how the apples would get picked in the Lake Huron (Meaford and
Collingwood) growing area. Then you can explain how the SW Ontario farm
land would get worked and harvested. Yes -- Ontarians used to do these
jobs, but they are too fat and lazy now -- the conditioning of young
people is not as good as it used to be. I know cause I made spending
money doing those jobs. They sucked, they were dirty, difficult and
exhausting -- and the wages paid (piecework) were much lower than those
paid to migrant workers.

Now as I recall --- the minimum wage in Mexico is $43NM per day -- About
$3.80 -- $4.50CDN a day depending on exchange rate.

Now they come here and make say $60 to $100 per day ($2000 to $3000 a
month)-- that is $500 to $1000 pesos (NM) a day in Mexico or about
$15,000 to $30,000NM depending on job and rate of pay. (I used to live
next to a doctor who made $40,000 pesos a month.) They send the money
home, and they are now a middle class family there. Why do they do it?
It's the money -- and their conditioning to hard work allows them about
20 to 30 years when they can actually do the hard labour.

So as long as they are treated reasonably and fairly and have good
living conditions -- well till you guys send your kids out to pick the
berries and till the lettuce -- bring on the migrant workers.

What you guys see as rip-off wages is -- to them -- a small fortune.

I'll probably (or maybe not) be back somewhere in Latin America working
within the next few months -- and I can expect the usual crop of
Mexicans asking me how they can get work here -- they too want to be
rich. So I tell them about the Holland Marsh and Lake Huron and SW
Ontario and Blueberry picking in BC -- and their eyes glow with the
though of good wages for light work. (You should see some Mexican
conditions.) And who can blame them?... I have lived with them and
eaten their food and worked beside them. They think like we do. They
want to get ahead -- and we are the vehicle. You don't have to like it
-- but it is reality. The companies I worked with are owned by Canadians
and they pay good wages, work with local customs and are very respected
-- Canadian and Mexican owners -- and the Nicaraguans think the same of
these companies.... Many Mexican owners cheat their employees and treat
them horribly -- after all they are owned by the law-makers themselves
-- no need to worry about prosecution. So Canada looks like paradise...

[Greg Carr]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 07:20:47 -0400, Will

Post by Will

Post by Greg Carr

Post by Karl Pollak
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Len McLaughlin
Very true. It's the middle men that are ripping off the system and why

Show me one person who got rich selling vegetables you fucking idiot.

Post by Len McLaughlin
farmers are forced to seek immigrant labour or sell out to the

We are not talking about immigrants but MIGRANT LABOUR

Post by Len McLaughlin
multinationals who will continue with the cheap labour bit. These are the
two selling the myth of the need for cheap labour...it keeps the spot light
off of them.

Fancy paying $12/kg for cherries?
I don't see you complaining about having fresh tomatoes in the middle of
winter, you moron. Where the hell did you think they come from? And who
do you think is looking after the plants, planting them, weeding,
harvesting? The same Pedro and Jose that comes here to do some more
weeding and harvesting for a few weeks. Except that he gets far more money
for his work here than he gets back home. So that you can have fresh
tomatoes at a very reasonable price in February.
It is amazing to watch you ignorant bunch of idiots get your shit in a knot
over any issue you can raise, without having the least clue of the facts.

Yet they have greenhouses producing tomatoes and pineapples making
profits without migrant slave labour. There is no need to import guest
workers to Canada.

Perhaps you can tell us how the Holland Marsh would operate. Then, after
that, how the apples would get picked in the Lake Huron (Meaford and
Collingwood) growing area. Then you can explain how the SW Ontario farm
land would get worked and harvested. Yes -- Ontarians used to do these
jobs, but they are too fat and lazy now -- the conditioning of young
people is not as good as it used to be. I know cause I made spending
money doing those jobs. They sucked, they were dirty, difficult and
exhausting -- and the wages paid (piecework) were much lower than those
paid to migrant workers.
Now as I recall --- the minimum wage in Mexico is $43NM per day -- About
$3.80 -- $4.50CDN a day depending on exchange rate.
Now they come here and make say $60 to $100 per day ($2000 to $3000 a
month)-- that is $500 to $1000 pesos (NM) a day in Mexico or about
$15,000 to $30,000NM depending on job and rate of pay. (I used to live
next to a doctor who made $40,000 pesos a month.) They send the money
home, and they are now a middle class family there. Why do they do it?
It's the money -- and their conditioning to hard work allows them about
20 to 30 years when they can actually do the hard labour.
So as long as they are treated reasonably and fairly and have good
living conditions -- well till you guys send your kids out to pick the
berries and till the lettuce -- bring on the migrant workers.
What you guys see as rip-off wages is -- to them -- a small fortune.
I'll probably (or maybe not) be back somewhere in Latin America working
within the next few months -- and I can expect the usual crop of
Mexicans asking me how they can get work here -- they too want to be
rich. So I tell them about the Holland Marsh and Lake Huron and SW
Ontario and Blueberry picking in BC -- and their eyes glow with the
though of good wages for light work. (You should see some Mexican
conditions.) And who can blame them?... I have lived with them and
eaten their food and worked beside them. They think like we do. They
want to get ahead -- and we are the vehicle. You don't have to like it
-- but it is reality. The companies I worked with are owned by Canadians
and they pay good wages, work with local customs and are very respected
-- Canadian and Mexican owners -- and the Nicaraguans think the same of
these companies.... Many Mexican owners cheat their employees and treat
them horribly -- after all they are owned by the law-makers themselves
-- no need to worry about prosecution. So Canada looks like paradise...

[Greg Carr]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 07:20:47 -0400, Will

Post by Will
I know cause I made spending
money doing those jobs. They sucked, they were dirty, difficult and
exhausting -- and the wages paid (piecework) were much lower than those
paid to migrant workers.

The employers paid the Canadians less than the migrants no wonder none
of them want to do the work. I don't want migrant labour in Canada.
Let the crops rot if they can't find workers. It reminds me of the
business man with the thick Punjabi accent complaining on CKNW he
couldn't find a cashier willing to work for minimum wage two miles
from any transit route. Your business plan is a failure good luck with
the next one.

Enjoy your work in Mexico.

[Will]

Post by Greg Carr
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 07:20:47 -0400, Will

Post by Will
I know cause I made spending
money doing those jobs. They sucked, they were dirty, difficult and
exhausting -- and the wages paid (piecework) were much lower than those
paid to migrant workers.

The employers paid the Canadians less than the migrants no wonder none
of them want to do the work.

That's cause the Mexican government wasn't watching over the arrangement.

Post by Greg Carr
I don't want migrant labour in Canada.

Union boy are you? CAW?

Post by Greg Carr
Let the crops rot if they can't find workers.

Excellent -- should help the food prices. Which industry would you like
to be missing workers...?

Post by Greg Carr
It reminds me of the
business man with the thick Punjabi accent complaining on CKNW he
couldn't find a cashier willing to work for minimum wage two miles
from any transit route.

And that has what to do with Mexican farm workers asshole? Trying to
divert the debate now that people know what a fool you are? Are you one
of these BC union wonks looking for any venue to pull your shit and
pedal your wares? Thought so!

?
Your business plan is a failure good luck with

Post by Greg Carr
the next one.

What business plan jerkoff?

Post by Greg Carr
Enjoy your work in Mexico.

I do -- whiners like you are ostracized there. Mexicans tend to be a
cheerful hard working people with no time for bull shitters. You would
be ignored there. You should be ignored here.

Be well!

pince pendejo!

[Greg Carr]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:32:07 -0400, Will

Post by Will

Post by Greg Carr
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 07:20:47 -0400, Will

Post by Will
I know cause I made spending
money doing those jobs. They sucked, they were dirty, difficult and
exhausting -- and the wages paid (piecework) were much lower than those
paid to migrant workers.

The employers paid the Canadians less than the migrants no wonder none
of them want to do the work.

That's cause the Mexican government wasn't watching over the arrangement.

Post by Greg Carr
I don't want migrant labour in Canada.

Union boy are you? CAW?

Had 4 union jobs in my life and quit everyone.

Post by Will

Post by Greg Carr
Let the crops rot if they can't find workers.

Excellent -- should help the food prices. Which industry would you like
to be missing workers...?

Let the market decide.

Post by Will

Post by Greg Carr
It reminds me of the
business man with the thick Punjabi accent complaining on CKNW he
couldn't find a cashier willing to work for minimum wage two miles
from any transit route.

And that has what to do with Mexican farm workers asshole? Trying to
divert the debate now that people know what a fool you are? Are you one
of these BC union wonks looking for any venue to pull your shit and
pedal your wares? Thought so!

Whatever. Lots of businesses fail because they can't recruit, train
and retain talent. Sometimes the business plan is fine but the
employer has an unpleasant personality. Mexican farmworkers should
work on Mexican farms.

Post by Will
?
Your business plan is a failure good luck with

Post by Greg Carr
the next one.

What business plan jerkoff?

Post by Greg Carr
Enjoy your work in Mexico.

I do -- whiners like you are ostracized there. Mexicans tend to be a
cheerful hard working people with no time for bull shitters. You would
be ignored there. You should be ignored here.

Chiapas uprising. Presidential corruption. Police and Army corruption.
Human rights violations. Taxi cab drivers who piss their pants. The
United States should shoot to kill any person who enters their country
illegal.

Post by Will
Be well!
pince pendejo!

Will try. The more employers are competing for my services the better
I am likely to be.

[Karl Pollak]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.

This is a good example of how little you understand what you see.
First of all, these people are MIGRANT LABOURERS, not immigrants. They are
here as long as there is work for them, then they go home.

They work their asses off because they are here for a few weeks to make a
quick buck. They can live nicely at home for 4 months on what they make
here in 6 weeks.

Secondly, they are employed directly by the farmer, not by a labour
contractor. The farmer inteviewed made it very clear that she could not
rely on the contractor as they would promise 12 people and show up with 4
because nobody else wanted the work.

There cannot be any EI scams because these folks are not eligible for EI.

Post by Greg Carr
Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

If you are willing to pay $18.50 for a small basket of fresh BC farm
strawberries, by all means let's pay the workers $13/hr.

[Greg Carr]

Post by Karl Pollak
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Greg Carr
Global News had this on yesterday. Mexican workers are being imported
to work as farm lab our because, "Canadians won't do the work". The
immigrants who used to be packed 15 to a van and forced to work long
hours for less than $8/hr then being physically and sexually abused by
the contractors (pimps) and farm owners are no longer willing to be
exploited. Crackdowns on the EI scams are probably also cutting into
the available farm labor.

This is a good example of how little you understand what you see.
First of all, these people are MIGRANT LABOURERS, not immigrants. They are
here as long as there is work for them, then they go home.

Many of them will stay behind. Some will commit crimes here or require
medical attention in our hospitals. They should not be allowed in
Canada. If no Canadian wants to work for the company there must be
something wrong with the company.

Post by Karl Pollak
They work their asses off because they are here for a few weeks to make a
quick buck. They can live nicely at home for 4 months on what they make
here in 6 weeks.

They should stay home.

Post by Karl Pollak
Secondly, they are employed directly by the farmer, not by a labour
contractor. The farmer inteviewed made it very clear that she could not
rely on the contractor as they would promise 12 people and show up with 4
because nobody else wanted the work.

Because they can't find any more people in their own community to rip
off and exploit out of town. Charan Gill and the Canadian Farmworkers
Union have educated their members into not getting ripped off by the
farmers and labour pimps. The contractors and farmers should go to the
homeless shelters and the safe injection site downtown and try and
find workers there. Why doesn't their own family work the fields? They
don't want to ruin their fingernails and the dirt will ruin their
eyeliner? There If no one else wants the job then there is something
wrong with the employer.

I know farmers who became millionairres through farming. If these
hayseeds can't cut it they can move to the city and get a job selling
real estate or running a convenience store.

Post by Karl Pollak
There cannot be any EI scams because these folks are not eligible for EI.

EI scams among seasonal farm workers used to be quite common.

Post by Karl Pollak

Post by Greg Carr
Let the farmers pay higher
wages to locals to pick their crop or just go out of business and let
someone else give it a try.

If you are willing to pay $18.50 for a small basket of fresh BC farm
strawberries, by all means let's pay the workers $13/hr.

I have a better idea. I will pay 50 cents a pound for organic bananas
and $2.50 a pound for strawberries from Washington State. Let the
market decide what farm labour is worth in the Canadian economy and
keep migrants from distorting the labour pool. Just because you own
some dirt doesn't mean you have the right to a govt subsidy to prop up
your failure as an agribusiness.

Last year some companies were trying to import construction workers to
work in Burnaby using the same excuse that they couldn't find Canadian
workers to work on short terms projects.

[Karl Pollak]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Greg Carr

Post by Karl Pollak
First of all, these people are MIGRANT LABOURERS, not immigrants. They are
here as long as there is work for them, then they go home.

Many of them will stay behind. Some will commit crimes here or require
medical attention in our hospitals. They should not be allowed in
Canada. If no Canadian wants to work for the company there must be
something wrong with the company.

Which part of ".., then they go home" did you not understand?
You and KKKomrade KKKaren, .... some people's kids.

Post by Greg Carr
They should stay home.

And you will do the farmwork?

Post by Greg Carr

Post by Karl Pollak
rely on the contractor as they would promise 12 people and show up with 4
because nobody else wanted the work.

Because they can't find any more people in their own community to rip
off and exploit out of town. Charan Gill and the Canadian Farmworkers
Union have educated their members into not getting ripped off by the
farmers and labour pimps.

What a pile of bullshit. When I came here, there were some bright sparks in
our group who "discovered" farm work as an easy way to pick up a few extra
bucks. I'd rather lick the plaster off the walls than pick strawberries or
weed some fields.

There are simply some jobs I would not do. Farm labour is one of them.
Luckily, I live in Canada, so I dont have to do farm work.

Post by Greg Carr
The contractors and farmers should go to the
homeless shelters and the safe injection site downtown and try and
find workers there.

And get the same answers as I just gave you in the above paragraph.
"We're Canadinas, we don't do farmwork"

Post by Greg Carr
Why doesn't their own family work the fields? They
don't want to ruin their fingernails and the dirt will ruin their
eyeliner?

Have you ever been on a farm yourself?

Post by Greg Carr
I know farmers who became millionairres through farming.

Of course you do.

But you didn't want to get filthy rich like they did ...

Post by Greg Carr
I have a better idea. I will pay 50 cents a pound for organic bananas
and $2.50 a pound for strawberries from Washington State.

Right. the only trouble is that organic bananas are at least 75c/lb. You
can;t get regular bananas for under 55c/lb.

In other words, you are full of shit as usual.

[Greg Carr]

Post by Karl Pollak
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Greg Carr

Post by Karl Pollak
First of all, these people are MIGRANT LABOURERS, not immigrants. They are
here as long as there is work for them, then they go home.

Many of them will stay behind. Some will commit crimes here or require
medical attention in our hospitals. They should not be allowed in
Canada. If no Canadian wants to work for the company there must be
something wrong with the company.

Which part of ".., then they go home" did you not understand?
You and KKKomrade KKKaren, .... some people's kids.

What happens if they refuse to or just take off?

Post by Karl Pollak

Post by Greg Carr
They should stay home.

And you will do the farmwork?

The farmer and his spoiled family.

Post by Karl Pollak

Post by Greg Carr

Post by Karl Pollak
rely on the contractor as they would promise 12 people and show up with 4
because nobody else wanted the work.

Because they can't find any more people in their own community to rip
off and exploit out of town. Charan Gill and the Canadian Farmworkers
Union have educated their members into not getting ripped off by the
farmers and labour pimps.

What a pile of bullshit. When I came here, there were some bright sparks in
our group who "discovered" farm work as an easy way to pick up a few extra
bucks. I'd rather lick the plaster off the walls than pick strawberries or
weed some fields.

I've picked potatoes and strawberries and bailed hay. Work is work.

Post by Karl Pollak
There are simply some jobs I would not do. Farm labour is one of them.
Luckily, I live in Canada, so I dont have to do farm work.

Post by Greg Carr
The contractors and farmers should go to the
homeless shelters and the safe injection site downtown and try and
find workers there.

And get the same answers as I just gave you in the above paragraph.
"We're Canadinas, we don't do farmwork"

Lots of Canadians do farm work. They just don't work for the rip off
farmers. pay more money and benefits and you will get workers.

Post by Karl Pollak

Post by Greg Carr
Why doesn't their own family work the fields? They
don't want to ruin their fingernails and the dirt will ruin their
eyeliner?

Have you ever been on a farm yourself?

Yes. Lots of manure, dirt and sweat.

Post by Karl Pollak

Post by Greg Carr
I know farmers who became millionairres through farming.

Of course you do.
But you didn't want to get filthy rich like they did ...

Never had the opportunity.

Post by Karl Pollak

Post by Greg Carr
I have a better idea. I will pay 50 cents a pound for organic bananas
and $2.50 a pound for strawberries from Washington State.

Right. the only trouble is that organic bananas are at least 75c/lb. You
can;t get regular bananas for under 55c/lb.

Save-On Foods on King George Hwy.

Post by Karl Pollak
In other words, you are full of shit as usual.

Your drinking too much.

[Heywood Jablomi]

In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@shaw.ca
says...

Post by Greg Carr

Post by Karl Pollak
Which part of ".., then they go home" did you not understand?
You and KKKomrade KKKaren, .... some people's kids.

What happens if they refuse to or just take off?

And what, stand around waiting for the raspberries to grow again?

Post by Greg Carr

Post by Karl Pollak
And get the same answers as I just gave you in the above paragraph.
"We're Canadinas, we don't do farmwork"

Lots of Canadians do farm work. They just don't work for the rip off
farmers. pay more money and benefits and you will get workers.

Yeah and then nobody buys your over-priced produce and you go out of business
and nobody has a job. If you want to set that up you have to put tarrifs on
imports and regulate the industry so that all producers face the same costs.

[Karl Pollak]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Greg Carr

Post by Karl Pollak
Which part of ".., then they go home" did you not understand?
You and KKKomrade KKKaren, .... some people's kids.

What happens if they refuse to or just take off?

Same thing that any tourist refuses to go or just takes off.
Except that these a ra family men, coming here to provide for their
families, not looking to abandon them.

It has to do with honour and responsibility, both of which are clearly
foreign concepts to you.